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Indignation and Asgard merger
support
77%
 77%  [ 38 ]
do not support (please post concerns)
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
uncertain (please post concerns)
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 49

scive
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Thanks for the thorough reply Pint. It's great to hear that you have a solid game plan coming up. You've settled my concerns atleast. Here's hoping this merger goes smoothly!

/scive

Pint_



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I don't want to put anyone on the spot but if you vote no and don't want to tell everyone why could you send me a pm with your concerns, it will be private and no one else will know who you are.



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ArumTP



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We really need to work over this dkp management first before a merge.

Florid

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ArumTP wrote:

We really need to work over this dkp management first before a merge.

 And we very much are trying our best to figure something out. We are in constant communication with their leadership about this very issue.

kureshaman



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I voted uncertain because i'm a brand new member, i don't know anything about indignation or any of their players, and i am very biased against mergers. As i don't think I can be very objective about it, i'm abstaining.

 

Things to consider:

 

How many VP keys do they currently have?

How many Apps do they currently have?

How many members are awaiting epics (the hard ones) and what does that distribution look like?

How many pieces of hard epics are in their guild bank?

 

I have been through 3 guild mergers during my time on live and in p99. Not a single one was ever successful. Maybe i had bad luck, or maybe mergers just don't work. I honestly don't know. I'll be here regardless though because I like this guild. Penis.

 

Chris



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Florid

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IB + ATeam merger was pretty successful

IrulianAtreides

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Ok, so to start this out, I want to bring a few points from the other discussion thread into this one. Gets a bit chaotic when the discussion is going on in two separate places. This conversation struck me:

From Legday:

I'm wondering... what are the politics behind being the unified tag?  I know this is a merger and not an absorption, but keeping the tag will definitely look like an absorption to the outsiders. I'm sure Indig is proud of their tag and reluctant to leave the legacy (by appearance) that it got absorbed, even if its truly a merger.

Is it a point of contention at all? Is the possibility of a brand new guild tag still being discussed?

From Pint:

 Most of the indignation members do not care for the name asgard (a lot of asgardians dont either!) and yes a name change was discussed.  The reason indignation will be coming into asgard is bc we as a guild are still in a comfortable position and have/had no intentions of shuttering our doors any time soon.  Indignation is a great guild but they have bled members lately and as a result they are looking for a place to transition their core so that they can stick together.  The way I see it is we merge them into asgard and give it the summer months to see how we work together and if our cores mesh.  If it is the case that we hit it off then at that point once we are certain then a name change could be considered.  That way if they decide not to stay all they need to do is untag asgard and retag indignation or whatever they choose to do.

This concept is a bit troubling to me. If this is intended to be a merger, then there is a huge psychological effect to a name and the way the whole thing is treated. If we are attempting to be one community, then we have to actually act like one to make it work. There are heaps of evidence that your attitude going into a situation has a massive effect on the outcome. If Indignation merges into Asgard with the idea that it is a trial and they can just reform if they don't like it, then from square one, we have set up a barrier between the two groups. Additionally, if we add a new group of members, but we keep the same name, and knowing that Indignation is ultimately trying out Asgard, then Asgardians will have a wall as well.

By definition, merging requires the start of something brand new, in which case every aspect of this should be treated that way in order to have the best chance for successes. If I try to put flour, eggs, sugar, and milk into a pan to make a cake, but I do not mix them, it will not be cake when I pull it out of the oven, but rather a hot mess of burned ingredients. If I mix them properly however, it changes everything into something brand new.

As others have voiced, "mergers" and "absorptions," regardless of name, have struggled to find success in the past. While you might be able to say that one group has managed it successfully, there is much more to it than that. If the majority are unsuccessful, then that says a lot. If there have been successes, then the way they managed to succeed needs to be taken very seriously as part of our concept of change. I can say that I won't get cancer from smoking cigarettes because my mom didn't, but that doesn't change the fact that I am still more likely than not going to get cancer, because that is a fact.

I guess ultimately the point I am trying to make here is that this type of situation puts both groups at risk to fail and even if they do not as a whole, this entire situation is bound to alienate members within both groups, which is not ultimately fair to either.

 

Dalven99
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I guess ultimately the point I am trying to make here is that this type of situation puts both groups at risk to fail and even if they do not as a whole, this entire situation is bound to alienate members within both groups, which is not ultimately fair to either.

 

This will always be a risk in a situation like this but taking the situation as a whole I feel the potential positives of this merger greatly outweigh the potential negatives. Let me explain my thinking in a series bullet points, as is my wont.

1. Indignation isn't the first offer of a merger we've had in recent weeks and the others were rejected as we felt the risk to the guild outweighed the benefits we might get. This guild is the entire reason I play Everquest, I can assure you if I thought that any aspect of the situation would negatively impact the guild as a whole I would be speaking up against it.

2. Why do I think merging Indignation into us is the right thing to do? For a better insight into this we need to consider Asgard's recent history in the last 6 months. Back in January we were quite happily part of the Class R rotation and the guild was structured accordingly - we were a lot smaller as a guild, pretty much the minimum of what we needed to be to kill the mobs we were up for. When the rotation collapsed in February we were doing the occasional raid on the Velious beta and realised that we were far short of what we needed to down targets in that expansion. When we went class C and started to compete for windowed mobs it was pretty apparent that the batphone force we could muster at short notice was barely sufficient for Kunark targets, never mind Velious ones. Its long been my opinion (and that of many other) that would need another 20 - 30 solid raiders, casual or otherwise, to be competitive in Velious. We have had pretty open recruitment policy to try and bolster our numbers and we have been growing despite the member churn, however many apps we get aren't raid ready yet or are new to raiding. The end result of this is that while we could probably do most Velious content as we currently are if we could schedule it like sky, but the chances are in a competitive situation we would struggle. The opportunity of taking in 20 - 30 experienced level 60 members is too good to pass up, or at least attempt. Ultimately we take in 5 - 10 apps a week anyway with varying degrees of success.

3. Why Indignation? They are a long established guild, have a great reputation when dealing with others and are knowledgable and skilled players. The fact that they see us as the right choice for them to merge into is not only a big compliment for us, the fact that they are like minded players with the same attitude to the game that we like to approach it with is almost too good to be true. They are pretty much the only guild on the server I would consider merging into us wholesale. The fact that they bring a number of experienced level 60s, with pretty much the number of players we would be looking to recruit for Velious anyway, is pretty tasty icing on the cake.

4. When it comes to viewing this as a 'trial', I'm not sure that's the right approach to be looking at this. Everyone should approach this as positively as possible with the expectation of success and that will go a long way to making this succeed. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't fit in as our guilds already operate similarly, have similar attitudes as I mentioned before. If any players from Indignation find they aren't having a good time in Asgard they are welcome to leave with no hard feelings, as is the case with anyone that joins the guild generally. If it turns it its their whole guild, which I doubt, then so be it - we will carry on as we always have - having the most fun with what we have. I don't doubt there will be personality clashes, hurt feelings over loot/dkp and whatever else comes up but such is Everquest. We are all adults and we should deal with it like adults. These things already happen in the guild and we continue to carry on with strength.

5. I strongly believe that the number of players this merger is bringing is ideal to make a situation like this succeed, even if failure is the norm. We make no decision lightly when it comes to the welfare of the guild, many of us have been here for many years and as I opened with, it is the entire reason I play Everquest. I don't believe that wiping the slate clean is the way to go here and I actually think would do far more harm than integrating them the way that is proposed considering the time and effort that people have put into both these guilds over the years.

All feedback is definitely appreciated as everyone's opinion is valued and absolutely has to be. However as I have said if we approach this with a positive, welcoming attitude I think this will be the first step to major successes as a guild and with some pretty cool new members too.

 

 

KAYSO99
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Dalven99 wrote:

Ultimately we take in 5 - 10 apps a week anyway with varying degrees of success.

 

 

Huge point to consider.  In 3-5 weeks we'd have the same number of accepted apps as we'd get in this merger.

It seems, per the front page, we've raised the recruitment requirements and that we're going to be strict on them which would drastically slow down the influx of new apps and give us a chance to adjust to the Indig folks.

By the end of a few weeks, we'll be in the same place number-wise, but with a huge percentage of the apps being experienced and raid-ready and much less likely to flake after attending a few planar clears.

Greenleafy (Poorafp)



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Pint_ wrote:

ideally asgards only kunark related focus on velious will be trakanon for teeth so that we can form a VP force. We will still do our best to secure vs, ct and other epic related mobs for people but our main focus will be trak teeth in kunark. In velious we would like to be able to consistently down vindi, statue, velketor. Eventually we will want to progress to being able to kill tormax, dain, dozekar after which we will want to creep into the north wing to try our hand at a few of the ~15 odd dragons there. The only thing we want to be comfortable killing out of the gate is vindi, velious is going to be an up hill battle but I think if we shape up and get more disciplined then we can accomplish a lot, I think that an infusion of indignation will go a long way in making it a reality.

 From what I remember on live during velious farming of HoT, 2 groups of 60's with good resist gear and you could plow through everything, aside from tank hp/cleric mana /resists I don't see why we wouldnt be able to do much much more in velious...

 

But this is about a merger... what would the merger entail? without details I don't like the idea..

*also, are you saying we're going to be farming VP after velious comes out?  I was pretty sure giant armor was a bit better than VP but never did vp.*

 

 

**I only saw the first page before I posted**

Pint_



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merger is official



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